SUMMARY-CUM-TRANSCRIPT OF THE INTERVIEW WITH ULLRICH ZIMMERMANN - PART THREE

Editor's note: So that Ullrich's words come across as clearly as possible, the text is partly summarised to exclude asides, verbal stumbles
and some awkward phrasing in English etc., but with all his important statements reproduced verbatim within apostrophes.

Ullrich speaks firstly about the search for solutions to his spiritual desire, having known all the time that "it is something in me and not something delivered by the Church and the standard settings.

Having rejected Sai Baba as a guru (already 7 years ago) he says that he knows "the difference between a truthful teacher and guru… The useful energy I had when I started my path, for example with Sathya Sai Baba… being lifted up but being only lifted up… and then from my sincere perspective on what is happening down there… to be empowered to empower him."

Ullrich speaks about playing one's part as a devotee, which requires "total focus on his person" which involves obtaining some power from him and being changed as Ullrich reports he was but, as he then says: "I also know… I was hooked with Sai Baba, there was no freedom whatsoever, there was no acknowledgment of me - (no) giving the knowledge that I am actually God… that everything that is coming out of me I can generate." Sai Baba "in no way delivered how you can actually implement that in your life."

"What I wanted was a true spiritual change, otherwise I would never have done that. That was the reason I went there, that was the reason I had the physical experience with him I did have. And there was a change but it was, for me, confusing."

Ullrich thought that: "If he has an interest in you, if you are a potential powerful battery… then you will get something, o.k.? But you won't get what you are going for… your major craving for God."
Ullrich believes instead: "You can only do it yourself, by hard work, by being impeccable in every life situation. And you can do that within the Sai Baba setting and some people do that, but you are always utterly connected to Sai Baba."

Ullrich insists that it is "not about getting personal liberation... it is about you being part of an energy game, being abused - however you put it - for me, because I really don't know what Sai Baba is, but he is certainly not somebody who comes from his heart. He's somebody who is coming from a power, and it is all about power. It is not about you being really empowered, it is about you being empowered to be a powerful feeder."

Therefore, Ullrich says: "You in your everyday life are the creator of your own reality... ...ninety-nine per cent that has to come from me. I made this video ... to make clear that you don't gain that inner spiritual connection with Sai Baba - or any guru for that matter."

Ullrich says he doesn't believe that Sai Baba was so low as to do the sex only for his own satisfaction. Alan Steinfeld comments:"He could still be that low". Ullrich says "O.K., well, maybe he is, but that is not my conception of it." Then also "It's all about power and I do see that very, very clearly."

Ullrich reports that his spiritual teacher (Ramtha) told him twice, "You will teach Sai Baba a lesson." Ullrich continues: "I do this interview now because I think it might help people... it is probably a way to teach Sai Baba a lesson."

"Also, the people I know who are really followers... these are powerless people" and he holds that to keep them powerless as Sai Baba does is "to have one's own agenda, to have an ulterior motive, not truthful."

Alan Steinfeld: He's so evolved and yet so stuck, is that what you mean?"

Ullrich: "Yes. My understanding of how energy works... a very powerful thing he set forth there. I haven't been there for eight years or something but I talk to people who were there and they say he is getting more and more tired - having no joy in doing it, I experienced this too when I was there."

Ullrich also saw "he had nothing to help all these people. Even though Sai Baba picks out people... it is because they are for his agenda. That is also his undoing in himself. I feel sorry for him"

Alan Steinfeld: Well, what you're saying then... even though you can materialise, appear in people... miracles, it doesn't mean you're spiritually evolved?"

Ullrich: "It's just black magic, O.K.? That's just knowledge about certain laws, the ability to gain them. And that's very common in India, there are really unevolved beings that have a certain ability of defying what we consider to be firm, physical laws. And these physical laws are shattered, the threshold from Newton's physics to quantum physics... if you go deeper into any subject.

Summing up, Ullrich says of Sai Baba: "That is not a spiritual path... claiming to be a spiritual leader I would assume he is getting a good livelihood. He helps lots of people but there's an agenda with it. They're waiting to be taken out, and they're really good people, people with integrity (Alan comments:'Sincere seekers!'). It's like people waiting for the end of the world and thinking you will be picked up by an UFO."

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