abuse testimony Huffington Post
In his most instructive account here, the Iranian-born US citizen Afshin illustrates the snares of following this self-procalimed divinity, and is similar to the process involved with many other Indian gurus. He testified to sexual abuse by Sathya Sai Baba and gave a very well-expressed account of how he was taken in by the entire indoctrination of Sathya Sai Baba and his movement. Thise testimony emerged in an e-mail to Professor David Lane (webmaster of The Neural Surfer):-
Hello Professor Lane. as we had talked. I am giw‘ng you a thorough account of my experiences with Sai Baba. I hope that this will be of
interest to people and will help them to understand what Baba is all about. Thank you for giving me the chance to write this essay.
I first got to know of Sai Baba in 1985 or 1986 through my brother. His friend had given him a book on Sai Baba which had a picture of
Baba on the cover. I asked my brother who this person is and he explained to me what he so far knew about him. Being born a Moslem I
rejected Baba from the very beginning because I couldn’t believe that another person - another human form if you want to be
philosophical about it - could be God.
It wasn‘t until 1990 or 1991 that I started to believe in Baba. At that time in my life I was very confused about life and the purpose of my
existence. Many unanswered questions were in my mind and I was very confused and unhappy. Having heard of the “miracles” of Sai
Baba through my brother who WAS A DEVOTEE OF SAI BABA. I thought to myself that if Baba can do such miracles. then he must
know more about life. the world. the purpose of life. etc. I then started taking Sai Baba seriously. I started reading about him and also his
teachings. Now that I look back. in all my confusion and mental torment. I was so desperate to believe in some philosophy that I jumped to
believe in Baba and his philosophy. Also. I came to believe that Sai Baba is God by reasoning that he MUST BE A HOLY PERSON. and so
he couldn’t lie. If he can’t tell a lie. then he is God because he says so. When I came to this conclusion. I felt as though I was in heaven.
Could you imagine a day when God or a Messenger of God comes to earth and you get to he with him. close to him. see him. talk to him.
etc? Could you imagine being next to the Messenger of God and believe full heartedly that He will save you? Could there be a better
situation and feeling? That is how I felt and that’s how people feel when they first come to Sai Baba or any other person who says they are
a Messenger or are divine or are in contact with God. At the beginning of my following Baba. I felt in seven heaven for months. I couldn’t
get enough of looking at his pictures. meditating. reading his teachings and living life in accordance with his teachings. etc. I was totally
being absorbed by him and his philosophy. Looking at other Sai devotees - followers - I found out that this is true for all devotees. that all
who come to Baba. are in ecstasy first few months and later become very mentally distressed individuals. I am sure the current Sai
devotees would dispute this but I have seen it over and over again. When I was feeling mentally distressed for reasons that I will soon
explain. I would tell anyone and everyone that meeting Sai Baba was the best thing that happened to me and that I had never been
happier. It wasn’t until much after that I realized that I was fooling myself to the point that I totally ignored and thought that there was no
pain. Upon my studies on psychology. I realized that humans tend to do that. They tend to pretend something is true. to the point that it
looks more and more as reality to them while others can see those short comings in them. I have seen many short comings in Sai devotees
which they claim are not there.
So. I was very happy to have come to know of Sai Baba. of God. I put his teachings into practice fully. Slowly. I started to wear out. Baba’s
teachings are very hard and I couldn‘t keep up with them. For example it was hard to try to remember God at all times. especially when
you have to concentrate on your daily tasks and God at the same time. I started feeling guilty for not being able to live up to Baba’s
teachings and I would tell myself that I should be ashamed of myself for not doing what God wants me to do. Who or what kind of person
gets to know God first hand and have the good chance to know him. while many billions of people don’t know him. and still not follow his
teachings? I was failing on many instances. such as remembering God. being celibate. not listening to the desires of the body. the senses.
the mind. etc. I had a very hard time remembering God and not falling to temptations. I was 19 or 20 and my hormones were exploding.
Everytime I met Baba. he would tell me to control my sexuality and so on and I wasn’t able to. When the hormones were going full swing I
would try to ignore my “bad” thoughts by trying to remember God. 99.99999% of time I would fail. I would play with myself - I didn’t
have any girlfriends or even girls as friends with whom I could possibly start a relationship; having girls around could arise temptations
and would be very bad for spirituality. so I thought. So. I would play with myself and when doing so I would feel very guilty and when
finished I would feel a thousand times more guilty. I would scorn myself to many things like being disobedient to God. not having enough
faith. not having enough will power. not loving God - Sai Baba - full heartedly. etc. You might be asking me why I am emphasizing guilt.
As a result of all of this I ecame very depressed and also I had a lot of paranoia. I came to the point that from the pain. my chest felt like
had opened and I could feel every cell in my chest blowing from the pain as if they were boiling water. At the same time I was very
paranoid about things. After years of telling myself that I was stupid and not good enough. I had somehow come to the belief that I was
crazy. I would interpret every sentence ten different ways.
And I was very confused as to which of the ten was the right meaning.
Afshin's next e-mail:
Can you imagine thinking you are crazy and interpret things as such? Could you imagine doubting every single thought you have? Could
you imagine thinking to yourself if your understanding of every single thing is correct? It gives such pain that I cannot explain. and I am
not only making it big. but since you haven‘t felt it. it is smalL I had to choose between the face value and the ten other meanings which I
had come up with. And what did Baba do or how did Baba direct me at my times of need? Well. in all my interviews he would scorn me
for not being strong enough. he would tell me to just do. never try. just do. He told me that I was very weak. If he knew anything about my
situation. he would tell me something to bring my spirits up. instead of daring to tell me things to further break me down. When he told
me I was weak. I would be harder on myself when I fell again. I would tell horrible things to myself. such things as “It is no wonder you
are stupid...”. “Baba has read you nicely. you are so stupid.”. etc. This kind of self-bashing had become a trend of thought which I still
The simplest thing Baba could do was to tell me to not feel guilty. But instead he was satisfying his own DESIRES in the private interviews
As a result of all this depression and paranoia. I slowly got away from practicing the teachings of Sai Baba. Everytime I would try to do
what he said. I would feel more depressed and paranoid. Ofcourse. it was very hard to do so. as I still believed in the divinity of Baba and
his teachings. What gave me a real push was a movie which my brother - another brother who is a non-devotee of Baba - gave me
regarding Sai Baba. The movie was filmed by a Korean research group which visited Baba. They caught him cheating on the
“materialization” of a necklace.
The picture was so clear and it sent me into shock. However. it took me over six months to come to deal with the movie. During this six
months. everytime a thought of the movie came to my mind I would push it away and destroy it as was a trend of my mind by then. All
“negative” thoughts or thoughts that are obstacles to my “faith” were to be destroyed immediately and replaced with “good” thoughts. So.
even in the face of overwhelming evidence that the movie showed. I had a hard time dealing with it until over six months later. Any
thought that Baba might be cheating or might not be God made my stomach so very much upset and my mind so very disturbed. But
eventually I had to deal with the problem. When I had finally dealt with the movie. then it was time to look for any reasons which Baba
would do such a thing. This had also become a trend of mind. which is very much prevalent within the Sai devotees. In any situation. Sai
devotees. would start to logic by saying “Baba is God. therefore he is fully pure”. Then all else was put into perspective based on that.
After a while this sentence is passed and you make all decisions based on this sentence subconsciously. I made up some reasons as to why
Baba would cheat on that particular materialization. Of course. I thought that Baba was cheating on that particular materialization.
Another idea which is very prevalent within Sai devotees is that if something goes wrong regarding anything is a result of Baba’s will. He
wanted it to happen so and it most probably is a test of faith. But then if that is the case. then what would justify a problem and what is a
test of faith? I had to deal with this question also. I am sorry for taking you through so many ideas but I am purposely doing so to show
you the level of mind control which is imposed on EVERY Sai devotee. How can such thinking be anything spiritual? Of course. to every
Sai devotee. this is the way to Salvation since they are in the middle of it and they have full faith in the teachings which bring about such
thoughts and mind control. I was going through so much mental decision-making and you would be surprised why I would do such a thing
in the face of so many other experiences which I had with Baba. I will explain those experiences now.
I visited Sai Baba three times. on three straight summers. Once I stayed there one and half months. another time I stayed two and half
months and the last time I was there for three and half. My first two trips I had seven interviews and a total of seven private interviews.
with just me and Baba in the private interview room. Baba had materialized a gold ring with three stones which he told me were
diamonds. The ring did not fit the finger on which Baba had placed it but I left it there regardless. as that was the finger Baba had chosen
to put it on. Here I would like to mention that of the four rings which Baba has “materialized” for my family and myself. none of them fit
correctly. In all the books regarding the “miracles” of Sai Baba. you will read that ALL such rings fit the person perfectly. I have never
read a book were it was told that almost all rings fit perfectly. And also. later I found out that the stones were not diamonds. The stones
after a while got black and two of the three fell out. I took this to mean that Baba is angry at me for not being good. for not practicing his
teachings as well as I COULD. for trying and not doing.
Another thing that was interesting was that Baba would not be able to tell things correctly. In one instance I was told by him that the night
before I had fever. I didn’t. neither was I in any kind of heat. Perhaps he wanted me to. but I wasn’t. I just let it go. destroyed it right there
and then. that very instant. No doubts were allowed.
In my first private interview. Baba did a ceremony which is supposed to be sacred in Hinduism and is done to all the followers by their
gurus. This practice involves the guru putting oil on his hand and pushing his hand upward between the front testicle and the back area.
That area is supposed to be a special area which is very important to spiritual practice of the devotee. This action is supposed to awaken
this area. which is supposedly full of energy. which will then play an important role in the thought of the devotees. In my case. it was more
of the opposite and my thoughts were never changed for the better. I was getting worst as time passed.
In every private interview after that Baba would ask me to put down my pants while he massaged my testicle. I would reason that Baba
perhaps is passing some energy to that area. Perhaps I had damaged that area or something in that area by playing with myself. I had
found reasons in order to destroy any doubts that might come to mind. In one occasion. Baba was not just massaging it. he was trying to
give me a hard on. The thought that he is doing so came to my mind then. but of course I destroyed it. Now. as an ex-devotee. I am able to
see and think about what he was doing. rather than destroy it. At this interview. as he was pushing his hand back and forth on my testicle.
l was telling him about many different things on my mind. Of course. I was so sure that he is doing the best thing for me that l was
thinking of something else. I was telling him about the problems in my country of Iran. how the people are suffering. the problems of my
family and my own problems. He couldn’t get me hard so all of a sudden with anger and an angry face he threw my thing up against my
stomach and with an angry face he turned his back to me. I thought he is probably angry at me because I should have more faith in him.
he already knows all my problems. everything in my mind. and he will help me in whatever way he can. Actually. he was angry that I
didn’t get hard and so when he turned towards me he told me to put my pants up again. This was the only occasion which he kept some
distance between me and him while he was playing with me. Every other time. he would hug me and do it. My question to those who
believe that Baba’s intentions in playing with me was pure is that if Baba says not a blade of grass moves without his will. then why does
he have to touch me in that way to perform whatever pure intention or will he had in mind? Or is it that when he was playing with me. he
was being good to me by giving me the privilege of being close to him and interact with him? For those who are not following. Sai
followers believe that Baba knows all our inner thoughts and the reason why he talks to us is because he is trying to talk to us for our own
enjoyment. He really doesn’t have to talk at all or ask us questions regarding our lives since he is the All-knowing. He does so for our sake.
so that we can talk to him and interact with him. Could it be that Sai Baba was playing with me in order to satisfy my needs to interact
with him? And what kind of satisfaction did he - or do you - think I would get from that kind of interaction?
In almost all of such interviews. Baba would breath harder and sometimes he would make noises too. Something I forgot to tell you about
the private interview above was that while I was telling Baba about these problems. his face was getting uneasy while he constantly. the
whole time was looking down at my testicle. His eyebrows got twisted and his face got more and more upset as he was trying to play with
me. I wonder why? He sometimes would tell me that l was weak there. there was too much being wasted from there. etc. Why then did he
touch it? Was he fixing things? Why did he have to fix things by touching and rubbing and going back and forth?
In one interview. he stood up while I was kneeling on my knees. With his right hand. to took my head and put it against his stomach. With
his left hand he took my right hand and put it against his testicle. He rubbed my hand there for a short while and this time he was making
loud noises of... I tried to look up to his face to see it. but he pushed my head hard against his stomach and did not allow me to look up.
So. I didn‘t try again. While he took my hand there. I felt his testicle. although I didn’t grab it. I just let him direct my hand and do
whatever he wants. At the same time. I would touch him by the outside part of my hand. As I said before. he was making loud voices while
he was doing that. This took about two minutes before he let go of me and my hand and said “This is God”!!! Whatever!!! It was his way
of putting a controlled mind to think and find many answers to what that whole situation was all about. It was his way of covering the sick
idea of having me touch him. and also covering his loud. wild voices. Anyhow. those of you who have a clear and logical mind understand
I had these experiences and still it took me over six months to deal with the movie that I mentioned before. After dealing with this movie. I
went to look over some of the movies which we had about Baba. These movies are movies which are prevalent within Sai devotees. The
very first movie which I watched is called “God lives in India". In that movie they showed about four or five instances which Baba cheats
the “materialization” of ash - ash is supposedly holy and is supposedly being created by Baba from thin air. One of these instances is a
very close. clear shot which shows Baba take something with his right hand from underneath of some letters in his left hand while bending
over a bit to talk to someone. He then takes the letters by his right hand and cleans his left hand. Then he takes the letters from the right
hand and immediately starts to motion his right hand in circular motion which is a “sign” that he is going to create something out of thin
air. This shot is a close-up and very clear. After seeing this first movie. I knew the truth and didn’t watch any other movies. I am sure if the
other movies have segments that show Baba‘s actions twenty seconds prior to each “creation” of ash or whatever. you can see him
More recently. there was a movie on cable TV here in the US which showed Baba CHEAT on materialization of a ring or necklace. I don’t
remember. There was much argument about it on the internet newsgroups. Bon Govani. a Sai devotee. defended his opinion of what the
movie showed by saying each person saw a different thing. What everyone. including Bon agree on is that Baba does some weird thing
with his hand under a plate before he brings down his hand and starts to circle his hand. Sai devotees have their own way of thinking and
so their own reasons and answers. It will be impossible to convince these people on anything. The more you use your reasons to find
something or some way to prove your points. the more they will use their twisted reasoning to counter attack your ideas. Their counter
attack is 99% illogical since they are used to twisting things around. Besides what good is a logical path which starts with “Baba is
God...”? Baba is God. therefore. he couldn’t have cheated on that movie. therefore. everyone sees a different thing when they see that
movie. They don’t think that what kind of motion is Baba making? Why is be making that motion? Why is be making it under the plate?
Why the need of that motion? Etc.
So. I am looking forward to getting a lot of illogical responses to this essay. I welcome them and look forward to disproving any illogical
ideas. I hope that their responses and my replies will give all of you a hint of how brainwashed the Sai devotees are and what a sorry state
of mind they have. Hopefully. those Sai devotees who still have some reason left can benefit substantially from this and can overcome all
mind control tricks that have been imposed on them. And. hopefully. all those who are considering Sai Baba. would have the luck to see
these postings and can benefit from them too. I really hope so.
I would like to give an example of how illogical Sai devotees can be.
The following are excerpts from
It’s a great site at getting some information on Sai Baba’s real personality. This is a quotation from John Hislop‘s book on Sai Baba. He
was one of Sai Baba’s closest followers and passed on a few years ago. still a devotee. You will find the following amusing.
“We can get a sense of Sai Baba‘s diagnostic ‘ability’ from the following account which happened to John Hislop.
110 - Sai Baba’s Misdiagnosis of John Hislop’s Medical Condition:
‘While asleep in Brindavan in the month of October. 1978. without any prior warning to me. the prostate suddenly closed off the urethra.
What happened then was agonizing. but nevertheless most comical. When Baba came down from his apartment. about 8 a.m.. I told him
that the urethra was closed and that already the bladder was very swollen. He smiled. said not to worry. and gave me vibhuti l"holy" ash].
About 11 a.m.. he returned from inspecting some new construction and as he came to the veranda. both Dr. Goldstein and I approached
him saying that my condition seemed to be serious. Baba came up to me. looked in my eyes. patted me on the head and said not to worry.
it was just the heat. Then at 4 p.m.. when Baba usually came down after rest. I did not wait. but sent a note upstairs that the situation was
steadily getting worse and that now severe pains were moving back and forth throughout my body.
Baba came down immediately. In the group of devotees waiting for him. there were. as usual. several physicians. including Dr. Goldstein
from California. Without any discussion. Baba told the doctors to take me at once to the hospital and operate if necessary.
Now the comedy quickened. We got into several cars and went to Baba‘s hospital for women in Whitefield. The Medical Officer-
in-Charge. Dr. Mrs. C. Rajeswari. made an examination room available. and the assembled doctors tried some 20 or more times to insert
various sizes of catheters into the bladder. but with total failure.
By now I was in agony, although I bit my tongue and kept silent. It was the immediate decision of the doctors that an emergency opening
would have to be made through the wall of the abdomen...
At Bangalore. the job was botched by the resident surgeons; heavy infection set in. and in three days Baba ordered me back to
Brindavan...Baba arranged for the operation at the Whitefield hospital...The care was magnificent...The entire inside of my abdominal
cavity was filled with virulent infection. and the tissues were so rotted that standard operating procedures could not be used...
Why the big comedy in the whole affair? It took me some time to figure it out...Why the deadly complications at the Bangalore
hospital'.’...Finally. at the time of another visit. I told Baba that I had figured the matter out. My conclusion was that I had come to the end
of my natural life. Baba had let me go down to the final step. and at the last moment. he had reversed my natural death by giving me
Baba smiled and confirmed that what I said was true; he had given me new life. After returning home to Mexico in January. some
continuing complications arose which took me into a Mexican hospital and then an American hospital. Baba sent word to not worry. that
these were just rebirth pains.‘l!?!?!?!??!?!l
John Hislop. My Baba & I. pp. 49-51."
I have always enjoyed reading this passage and still do enjoy it. Great comedy indeed!
One thing that I forgot to say is that on my last trip to India. there were about 20 American and Indian American college students which
came to attend Baba’s summer classes which mainly concentrate on spirituality. Some of these students considered themselves devotees.
others had come to see and judge Baba for themselves. In an interview Baba “materialized” a ring or something else for either all of those
students or majority of them. At least half of those students say that they saw Baba CHEAT. They reported that they saw Baba take and
put things from the sides or back - I don’t remember which one they said - of the chair that he was seating on. When I say the sides or the
back I mean the sides of the cushion of the chair or the backside of the cushion. These students were firm in what they saw. After this
interview. some four days later. Baba was out giw'ng darshan - walking around. sometimes stopping to talk to some individuals. sometimes
choosing individuals or groups of indiw'duals for an interview. He stopped in front of the American students which were sitting in an area
that was designated to them. He made the circular motion. and supposedly created some ash and threw it on one of the student‘s face.
During this time. his back was to me. When he turned around I saw his face was very angry. He was pissed! As usuaL as you know why. I
didn’t give importance to this. Later. one of the boys in the American group. with whom I had become very close told me that this student
who was thrown ash to face and eyes was very vocal about what they had seen in the interview room. namely. Baba taking things from the
chair on which he sat on. Now. if Baba‘s life is his message as he says so. then is it right that we act in this way when someone criticizes us?
I am sure I‘ll get a few reasons as to why Baba did such a thing. Or at best. i might get something like Baba’s intentions are not known to
us and that I can’t say why he did that. I’ll be looking forward to reading the reasons.
I welcome all comments and suggestions to my e-mail:
Before I go. I urge all who are interested in Baba to see the movies that I mentioned and also to get to now Sai Baba devotees very
personally. Be as close as you can to them as if they are your best friends. Study them and see if they have changed as a result of knowing
Baba. I am sure you will come to the conclusion that although they are doing more service. their personality is kind of deceiving and
hypocritical. since they proclaim one thing and act another. Another thing I would like to say is that all of the ex-devotees of Sai Baba that
I know have realized that life was a misery to them while they were following Baba. Do not be fooled by the devotees that say they have
peace of mind. i have seen many who proclaim better state of mind but really are very nervous people.
Thank you for your time and patience through my long and complicated story.
From shagolsw itdc.kon-anair.com
Sat Aug 3014:12:31 1997
Hello Professor Lane. I am responding to a recent post. I feel that there are too many generalizations in this gentleman’s post and it has
to be cleared. Thanks David’s post are placed in two opening and closing paranthesis.
((Dear Mr. Lane: I would like to make a few comments addressing the various question brought forth by the postings on your web site
about Shri Sathya Sai Baba. Ordinarily I would not write this email. since I believe it is virtually impossible to change somebody"s mind
once he is convinced of something and it is often pointless to go back and forth with arguments and counter-arguments. However. since
you graciously post dissenting views along with your own at your site. my mail may help others who read your postings and have not
already made up their minds. So I would appreciate it very much if you could post this (if you find it worthy) along with other postings in
your ‘Sai Baba debates’.))
On the same token. since its hard to change someone‘s mind. I am not going to try to do so. I’ll just try to clear the misconceptions. ((Let
me state at the outset that I am not a ‘rabid’ Sai devotee (if you can call these gentle folk that). I do have faith in his avatarhood and I
have visited his ashram (for 4 days) while I was in India for other reasons. I am not a member of any Sai group and have not attended any
of their meetings. bhajans etc. My explanations about the nature of Sai Baba is offered without any ‘proof ’. these explanations you can
read and accept if you find reasonable. reject if not.)) F our days is a very short time to give an opinion about Sai Baba.
Furthermore. you are not associating with the Organization and their events. What do you know about Sai Baba? How did you come to
believe that he is an avatar? ((- Is he the head of a cult ? Yes and .\'o. It is a cult in the sense it has a charismatic leader (but so did
Christianity i.e..lesus). It is not a cult in the sense there is nothing to join. no dues to be paid. no specific rules to be followed (except
may be when you stay at the ashram and even these are very reasonable). no courses to be attended (or paid for) and no initiations to be
taken (or paid for).))
Very clearly you haven‘t been attending the meetings of Sai Baba’s Organization. Baba clearly asks people to follow nine codes of
conduct at all times. There are some activities costing in hundreds of dollars which are printed in the quarterly magazine of Sai
Organization of America. And wouldn’t you agree that if a cult starts somewhere and the leader decides that - for publicity - he will not
ask for money. then the fact that he is not asking for money is good publicity for him and will bring him many followers and most
probably money too.
When Sai Baba doesn’t ask for money. people think that he is not interested in money. When people see that he is doing some charity
work. people give them some money thinking that since he is not interested in money. he will spend it wisely. Do you disagree? So. just
because Baba doesn’t ask for money. it doesn’t mean that he is not interested in it. And just because there is no initiation involved
meaning no one will be turned away - works to Baba’s benefit. don’t you agree? By the way. I have seen Baba’s authorities throw out
upon arrival - a 19 or 20 year old hippie boy because of his looks. Don’t you think that this person could have benefited from God Baba‘s
mission here on earth?
Why does Baba not let some stay in his ashram and at the same time say that all are welcome to him and that all are his children? ((The
ashram is probably the cheapest place to take a vacation (room rate as I recall. is less than $2) and nobody will bother you if you don’t
bother them.)) Two dollars is a lot of money for Indian. He is ripping them off. If he wanted to raise the rent to 810. only the wealthy of
India would be able to visit Baba and that’s not good for publicity. is it? ((You don’t even have to attend any of the activities. Nobody will
pay you any attention. and definitely no attempt is made to indoctrinate or ’brain-wash’ you.)) How do you know that no attempt is made
to brain wash you? You were only there for 4 days and you don‘t go to the Organization’s meetings. How can you be sure? Baba is the
ultimate mind expert and politician. The same way that he doesn’t ask for money just to get people‘s money. he uses psychology to get
Read my previous posting on how Baba ignores people so that people desire to talk to him more. ((- Does he rub vibhuti on boys genitals
(or to use Mr. Lane’s elegant phrase - rub their woodys) ? Apparently. according to the two postings on your site. he does. He also rubs
vibhuti on devotees foreheads. throat and chest (read a non-devotee‘s experience in ‘Empire of the Soul’ by Paul W. Roberts). Serious
((Vibhuti. by the way, is ash left over fter burning incense - nothing to do with cow dung. Hindus (over 600 million of them) have been
putting vibhuti from their temples on their foreheads for thousands of years. long before there was a Sai Baba. I don’t mean to accuse
anyone of ethnic insensitivity, but I would have expected better from someone who teaches at the university level.)) One thing is for sure.
Baba is not creating this ash from no where! He has been cut in two movies. with at least 5 shots of him cheating on creating vhibutti.
There goes his claim that he is creating them from no where through his will. Don't you agree that if that ‘5 the case, then he is lying?
Does he teach anything strange or weird ? Sai Baba has not ‘written’ any books but there are many books available of his discourses. His
basic message seems to be to encourage his followers to be of service to others. Nobody has pointed out anything remotely objectionable in
his teachings (Mr. Lane, surely his message should merit some mention in your opinion of him, or are all your lectures at the university
based on gossip and innuendo rather than serious study ?l.
W'rong again, Sai Baba has written a few books. The reason why Professor Lane has not brought up his teachings is because he is too
smart for that. After years of seeing evangelists taking people's money by ONLY talking. he will not fall for a Indian with a ‘fro. Baba
himself says that talk ‘5 cheap, so we are looking at his character through his actions. namely molestation, cheating, lying, etc. ((- Is Sai
Baba Omnipresent ? Not exactly, be is not present everywhere at once. But his consciousness can be present in several places at once. So
you can call him (or to use a new age phrase. invoke h‘n presence) so that he can be aware of your current situation (especially if you are a
devotee and have a unique connection to him). He does keep close tabs on everyone and everything at his ashraml) W'ait a minute. if you
accept that Sai Baba is an avatar, then you must accept that he ‘5 omnipresent. After all, an avatar is God in human form. Bon would
argue that our understanding of omnipresent is wrong, that it doesn't mean knowing everything. But all religions say that God knows
everything. In my opinion, if God doesn’t know everything. he is imperfect. agree? I remember that as a devotee. I had to change my
ideas of omnipresence and omniscience because I found some short comings in Baba. In order to not lose faith in him. I changed my ideas.
20 ((- Is he Omniscient ? Again not exactly, all the knowledge of this world and its past, is not present in his brain.» In Sai Baba’s monthly
magazine. Sanathana Sarathi. there was an essay that discussed how Baba fulfills the prophecies of Prophet Mohammed regarding the
chosen one that will come to save the world.
One of the sayings of the Prophet as was printed in Baba’s magazine - with his permission of course - was that all the knowledge of the
world, past, present and future will be in the chosen one’s hed. So I figure Bab clims to be omniscient, omnipresent, etc. don’t you
agree? (( However, he can access this informtion (about pst history as well, from the hll of records - another eastern myth). He can
read your mind nd so has ccess to your memory. He may even be misled by any false memory you have or by incorrect information
from a person who believes it to be true, unless he bothers to check it with other sources. All this does require some effort on his part,
though perhaps insignificant for him.))
So, he is not an avtr and he is lying to everyone by saying he is. In my opinion, he is a black magician. He himself believes in black
magicians becuse once he told a story that involved a black magician Don't you agree that if he is not God, but he claims to be God then
he might be a black magician. He might be ble to do great mgical things, but I know for a fact that he fails at times. So, don’t you agree
that he might be a blck magician in that cse? ((- Is he Omnipotent ? No. As the Hindus say, even Brahma has to work within the Laws
of Karma and so does Sai Baba.)) Baba says otherwise.
He says that he can do anything. He says that if he wants he can turn the sky to earth and the earth to sky. He says that however, he has to
respect the Laws of Karma and not show his power. That is the only limittion the law of karma supposedly has on avatars. Its not that
the law of karm will block the powers of God or avtar. It can’t, its just that the avatr will not disturb it. So, if you see a short coming
in Bab, its not because of the law of karma. If he wrongly tells of your pst, then he is imperfect. (( He my be able to delay or ccelerate
your karma or help you face it, but not eliminate it or change it. (This my explain why he can give a rich man a gold ring, only of
sentimental value to him; but not to poor person - it would just add to his karmic burden). )) Instead of giving expensive jewlery to the
rich, I suest tht he give a dose of love. After all, his devotees claim that once in a while Baba gives them this dose of love or emotions of
love that makes them feel very good - as devotee I had some myself, but now think that it was all a ply of my own mind and that Baba
had nothing to do with it. Wouldn’t that be better in order to change the rich person’s mind and capture his heart? ((- Does he have
supernatural powers ‘.’ As the theosophist says, there are no supernatural acts, only natural ones we do not yet understand. Or as Jesus
said, “even greater things than these [the miracles I have done] will you do”.
He is capable of producing items seemingly out of thin air. He claims he does this by his ‘sankalpa’ (act of will). There are many anecdotes
of this as well as a few reports of fraud (many more of the former).)) Unfortuantley, many people are fooled by mgicins. And even
more unfortunate is that Bab does not allow cameras of any kind in his compound nymore. So, you cnnot catch him cheating on tape
He is capble of producing items seemingly out of thin air. He claims he does this by his ‘sankalpa’ (act of will). There re many anecdotes
of this as well as a few reports of fraud (many more of the former).)) Unfortuntley, many people re fooled by mgicins. And even
more unfortunate is that Bab does not allow cameras of any kind in his compound nymore. So, you cnnot catch him cheating on tape
anymore. However, I have seen him chet on three different movies. Just becuse many people claim to his miracles, does not make him a
miracle man. Look at “God Lives In India” nd tell me if you believe the millions who believe tht he is doing miracles or the few who
believe he is cheat. (( But I prefer to ignore them both, these re mainly to attract people who look for miracles rather the message.
Again these acts require some effort on his prt. (Note tht none of his ‘mircles’ true or flse require ny payment))) You re truly fooling
yourself Dave. If the guy says that he is performing miracles due to his will, nd if he gets caught cheating, then he ws lying to everyone.
Why can’t you compare Baba to the Evangelists for a minute just to see if they compare. I am not asking you to compare him to the
Evangelists for ever, just do it and compre nd then think about Baba as you want. Honestly, isn’t he doing exactly the same thing?
Everything is the same between them except that Baba doesn’t sk for money, which in my opinion is new, more pure “looking” way of
Evangelism. ((- If not by miracles, why In I impressed ? As I said earlier, his message is simple and beautiful (almost naive for this
material world). Also, when you are in his presence (I did not have a private interview so was at least 25 feet from him), a curious
peacefulness comes over you (not excitement at all).
This feeling wears off, if you visit him daily on consecutive days. I have been told that this is because your consciousness is already at a
higher level as the days pass.)) God help us if higher consciousness means that I will become like Bon and so many Baba devotees that I
have seen. Or does the feeling wear off because you get used to being around Baba - God, superhuman, someone special? ((- Is he God
I am afraid not (sorry to disappoint Sai devotees). But he is pretty close, I believe he is an Avatar. His position on earth is explained in my
webpage (http:/fmembers.aol.com/dngude/worldorg.htm - this site will no doubt, establish my credentials as a certifiable ‘kook’). - Will
following him make you happier ? Perhaps, but very likely not. For the following reasons:
I. If your former friends do not like your new association with an Indian Guru, you feel socially isolated. If your own family resents it
then you are in real trouble.
2. After you have been on the spiritual path for a few years, all your repressed emotions, anger, resentment, repressed sexuality comes to
the fore. These inner demons have to be conquered before you can progress much further.
3. When you come into contact with an Avatar, your personal karma is often accelerated (perhaps because you can tolerate more pain with
his help). However, following him can put you on the Path for eventual self-realization, so all this may be worth it. All the information
above is my current understanding of the ‘truth’. It is offered ‘as is’ without any warranties. Fallibility is the human condition whatever
the Pope may think.))
Thanks for being honest about your opinions. Thanks for accepting that they are opinions after alL Bon on the other hand would tell us
his opinions as if fact and scorch us saying we have too many opinions. Unfortuatelly, he used to throw out my fact - three movies - as
movies not having any value like Independence Day. I ppreciate your honesty. ((As for the two individuals: I am sorry that they feel
violated or molested. >From their postings, they ppear disturbed persons. I urge seeking a qualified therpist and undergoing counseling
(I have my Ann Landers hat on now). There is always the danger of psychological breakdown or worse.)) Unfortunately, I haven’t had the
luxury of a therapist. I’ll do so AS SOON AS I make some more money.
(Thank you Mr. Lane for your indulgence. Regards, 20 Dave
Letter to David Bailey
From : IRAN I USA
Source : Afshin Khorramshahgol - correspondence to David and Faye Bailey
Subiect : MY ACCOUNT RE SAI BABA
Dear Faye and David, Hello.
Here is a brief account of my experiences with Sai Baba. I apologise for the graphic language of th message, but it ‘3 the only way to share
I travelled to India three times, from 1991 to 1993. On my first visit to India I was already a devotee of Sai Baba and believed he was God. I
had a total of seven private interviews in the first two trips. In the first private interview Sai Baba asked me to undo my pants and drop my
underwear. Since I believed he was God I did as he asked. He had already ‘materialised‘ oil and he applied it in the area between my penis
I was told after the interview by some devotees, that this act is done by gurus to their disciples to open a chakra, or source of spiritual
energy in the body of the disciple. However I am not sure if this is what in fact Sai Baba had done.
My research since, has not found this initiation ceremony in any Hindu books or scriptures, or among Hindu followers of other gurus.
In every private interview after the ‘initiation’ private interview, Sai Baba asked me to drop my pants and underwear, and he would rub
my penis. Once he was rubbing it so hard it was obvious to me that he wanted me to get an erection.
I was busy talking to him about my problems, the problems of my country Iran, and my family’s problems, and I was asking him for his
blessing for all of them.
I was not interested in sex or anything, especially with a guy, and so my penis did not grow, now matter how hard Sai Baba tried. Finally, he
gave up and threw my penis up and turned away with a very angry face and mumbled something. When he turned back to me, he told me
to put my pants on again and the private interview was over.
You may ask why I didn’t stop Sai Baba doing what he was doing if it was so obvious to me that he wanted me to get an erection?
Due to my being brainwashed, I thought I had to throw out this thought as it was another obstacle on my way to reach God. According to
Sai Baba, all bad thoughts have to be thrown out immediately and replace with good, pure thoughts - and so I threw out the idea of Sai
Baba trying to give me an erection, even though I knew he was.
In another interview, Sai Baba asked me to kneel in front of him while he was standing. He took my head with his right hand and pushed it
hard into his stomach. He then took my other hand with his left hand and tried to rub it against his penis.
I did not grab his penis. I just let him direct my hand to his penis, using the outside of my hand, not the palm of my hand. While he was
rubbing my hand on his penis, he was moaning sexually.
In the middle of this act, I tried to look up to see his face as I wanted to see his emotions, He didn’t let me. He pushed my head into his
stomach harder, and th made me stop my desire to see his face altogether. He finally gave up, realising that I was not interested in
grabbing his penis, since I wasn’t willing to use my palm to touch him.
Even this incident didn’t shake my faith in him. That’s how strong is the brainwashing in Sai baba’s organisation.
In all the private interviews that I had with Sai Baba, he would also bug or kiss me, or ask me to kiss him. I had come to reason with myself
that he was touching my penis because he was probably healing me of some disease or handicap. I reasoned to myself that Sai Baba asked
me to kiss him, or k‘nsed me because he loved me, and kissing on the cheeks is all right - kissing on the cheeks between men is okay in my
It was not until I saw a movie that shows Sai Baba cheating, that my faith in him started to crumble. It was only after I left Sai Baba (six
months after seeing that movie) that I realised his real intentions in those private interviews.
I am willing to testify in any court of law or in any gathering about the above experiences.
I have been very active on the internet for the past six years and I have saved numerous people from falling into Sai Baba’s evil trap.
Author: Said Publisher: The NEURAL SURFER Publication date: June 1997
E-mail David Christopher Lane directly at email@example.com From: Said Khorramshahgol To: "'firstname.lastname@example.org'" Subject: Response to Bon Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 08:39:58 -0700
Hello Professor Lane, the following is another response to Bon's response to my first posting. Regards, Afshin.
As to not confuse the readers between Bon's writings and my own, Bon's writings will be inside double parenthesis. 20
((These can manifest as suffering, especially when addressing specifics. That may explain why the fellows offer but few specifics, then usually embroider the facts with hyperbole, resulting in their frequent assumptions.))
I would like everyone to see what I have based my based my opinion of Raju - aka Sai Baba, his last name - so that they can choose if they are facts or assumptions as Bon claims. They are the following: 1. I have seen three movies with some very clear, close shots of Baba cheating on "materializations" of "holy" ash, a necklace, and either another necklace or a rings, I don't remember which one. 2. I have had Raju touch my testicle some five or six times. He has hugged me while touching me. He has breathed hard and made sexual noises. So, I have concluded that he was touching me in a sexual way. 3. Raju has directed me to touch his testicle by taking my hand and rubbing it against his testicle. Further, he made loud sexual noises. So, I have come to the conclusion that he was sexually aroused and enjoying it.
I would like Bon to answer the following: 1. If Raju was healing something in my testicle, why did he hug me? Why did he have to hug me to do so? 2. If Raju was healing something in my testicle, why did he make sexual noises? 3. If Raju was healing something in my testicle, why did he breathe harder? 4. Why did Raju have me touch his testicle?20 5. If Raju was trying to perhaps teach me something or whatever other answer you have come up with, why did Raju make sexual noises while he directed me to touch him? 6. Can you point out what assumptions I have made? 7. Can you point out how I have embroidered the facts with hyperbole?
((Those who have met Sai may however differ or agree with Said or with me, but surely those who at least read Sai's teachings, instead of only the comments by men like me or Said, might recall that Swami again and again advises folks to build their lives and their faiths NOT ON HIS PERSON, >NOT ON STORIES ABOUT HIM, GOOD OR BAD, but rather on their own experience, and to use that resulting basis of direct experience to develop keen attention, and with that to develop unbiased insight.))
It might not be wise to listen to others views at times, but you can't generalize and say you should never listen to other's views regarding someone else. So, Raju, the all knowing, is wrong when it comes to this point. You are thinking based on your faith in Raju. You have accepted that he is God and you are thinking that each person has a different experience and belief regarding Raju, a belief which is strong within Raju's followers. So, as a result you are saying no one should judge Raju based on anyone else's experiences solely based on your belief that he is God and his teachings are the Truth. But to me and to a major majority of people he is just a human being and not what you think he is. We, as logical human beings can listen to other people's experiences regarding Raju. To everyone who is not a Raju follower, it becomes more clear that Raju is a homosexual and a charlatan if two people have the same experiences with him. Try all you want to convince them to forget our experiences, but we, they won't be able to forget about similar accusations of sexual abuse, specially if they have kids. I just wanted to give you a report of how we think down here. Apparently you are too high and your mind too twisted and you need us to clear how logical thinking can be. And also, doesn't Raju say that the character of the guru is important. I have read his teachings regarding the characteristics of a guru. He mentions many things about recognizing the qualities of the character of the guru. So, why does Raju and you not want others to examine the character of Raju? I will tell everyone why you and Raju want people to go there and see Raju up close. It is about Raju wanting people to be mesmerized with the idea of seeing miracles and seeing the source of these miracles and wanting to talk to him, etc. In the next few paragraphs I will explain how a person feels and why they feel that way when they go to see Raju the first time.
((That [experiencing Raju first hand] is the basis for sadhana, or spiritual discipline. Experience like that you see does example how understanding itself is best realized while *living* a teaching, not dwelling in imaginary states or assumed relationships))
Bon, there are two kinds of experiences, inner and outer. The outer is also important, even in cases such as studying Raju. Outer experiences can be even good for your spirituality, don't you agree? It can even save you from fraud teachers who can ruin your life, don't you agree? I am sure you agree, and so how can you ask non-devotees to go and see Raju without considering my side of the story? If I am right about Raju, then their lives are ruined, agree? I am sure you agree, so how can you make such a suggestion? I know how you make a suggestion like that, you are high and your mind is twisted, you don't think logically as we do down here. You base your reasoning on your faith. You think that what Raju says is the Truth and most beneficial - as Raju devotees believe. So, your logical mind which would tell you "what if I am wrong and Raju is a fake" does not function. All your reasoning is shadowed by your faith, I am not saying you don't have reasoning. Reasoning is a sequence of if...then...else statements. But your if statement starts with the supposition that Raju is God. Can you undrestand? I would like to tell everyone how one feels when one goes to see Raju for the first time and why you feel as such. Imagine being told that someone has many millions of follower, he has risen the dead, many times, he can read your mind, tell of your past, your future, AND HE PERFORMS MIRACLES DAILY by creating holy ash, which is supposed to heal the sick and help those in need. Wouldn't your mind boggle over that? Even if you are very skeptical at first, after hearing about his many miracles for a while or hearing them from a couple of people, you might agree to check it out for yourself. You have also been told that this person not only claims to be God, he also claims that you are God. The effect this kind of statement has is shown by the following: When he says you are also God in order to calm your mind over his claim to be God; the claim that you are also God, also makes you feel like there must be something I don't understand about his philosophy, how can he and I be God? So, you leave it alone for the time being. So you go to see Raju. You are very excited because this person is supposed to be a very special person indeed - the great miracles that you have been told comes to your mind. This is apparent in many books about "experiences" of people when they met Raju for the first time. I have read many stories where the people are thinking about so many different things while they are going to see him. You get excited and you can't help it. This kind of excitement can be very soothing just like a spiritual experience and ecstasy. Also, you are very excited because you are waiting for that very first time that you will see a miracle. This is also evident in "experiences" of people who went to see Raju for the first time. Many write about looking for that first miracle. So your mind is boggling over the prospects of perhaps meeting a holy person who can do great miracles. Another thing is that on the first trip, if not everyone, a major majority of people want Raju to notice them and be so very kind to them. These people could be pure skeptics, but they feel that way anyhow. So, you also want a great deal of attention from Raju. You go there, and Raju doesn't pay any attention to you for a while. This is also what many devotees have claimed or written in their books. After a week or two of waiting for Raju to notice you, you are becoming very upset and at the same time more excited. After living within thousands of devotees and constantly being told of Raju's miracles, you are getting very excited - after all it could be true that he is doing miracles, that he is God - and you want him to notice you more. Another thing that could be nice is for you to talk to Raju face to face, which is only possible in an interview. You ask for it and you want it so bad. And finally, one day Baba looks at you or starts to notice you or talks to you. You feel like you are in heaven. Truly, you feel in a kind of spiritual ecstasy. You know why because anytime, anyone wants something so bad and they get it, they get very happy. In your situation, while the thought that Raju might be God is in the back of your head-and most probably it has strengthened after two weeks of waiting and conversing with Raju devotees --, this feeling of happiness gets a kind of spirituality in your high. You will say and I have "WOW, this person who might be God-and whom I wanted so much to notice me-has finally noticed me!" If you observe your emotions and thoughts while you are there then you will see it for yourself. Unfortunately, the high and the ever increasing and intensifying idea that Raju might be God and the fact that we really would love to see God face to face makes it hard to face our real emotions and makes it hard to think about it logically. Wouldn't it be great to see God face to face - specially after you have been there for two weeks and the idea that he might be God is getting stronger day by day? This is the feeling that Bon wants you to get. I, as a devotee, used to tell everyone that to see Raju is to love Raju, for this very reason. All Raju devotees think that way, because we used to talk about the first meetings with Baba, the first time he looked at us, etc. Bon is a pervert, he doesn't want you to go there to examine Raju, he wants you to go there and get high and illogical. I am sure Jed would agree with me on this. Bon is a liar. So now you know Bon's intentions and his personality. Every Raju devotee believes that their first visit to Raju is their best. That is because the first time they go there, they want to see miracles and Raju palys mind games with them by not paying attention to them for a while, etc. All that I have said above applies to the first trip. The next trips become more normal. In the second and consequent trips you feels very high for the first week - after all you are going to see your God, someone you are dedicating your life to, and someone whom you love - and then wears off.
((However, those who wish to examine Sai for character flaws may certainly do so if they find that beneficial, but surely might do well then to at least go and see him directly, so as to fully examine their day to day lives and his day to day life, both in outer appearance as well as in regard to his teaching, to see if that has value or not.))
My reasons why you feel the way you do when you go to see Raju explains why Bon is asking everyone to go and see Baba without trying to examine Raju for character flaws. Bon wants everyone to go there and get high and not deal with Raju's character. Isn't it better to also test the character of someone who says he is God? Shouldn't that be the first step in your research on Raju and his claim to be God? I would appreciate it if someone else, a third party could respond to this question.20
((Instead, if they do as Said suggests, if one instead pays attention to stories, or to movies, or to hearsay or imaginings, as he himself brags that he has done, one gets no actual experience, no understanding, and no insight. Rather one gets what Said has: 'opinion' which is frankly more bias than anything else, but opinion which masks itself as if "objective fact".))
Well, your opinions are facts, but mine have no ground, they are just opinions, right? Your logic there is as twisted as it has been throughout this reply. Also, Bon's problem here is that he puts too much emphasis on the plays of his mind. Within the Raju devotees, it is very popular to "get within" and experience things within. All the "bad" emotions are destroyed, all "good" emotions are placed there, if possible, all thoughts and emotions are not only watched but are directed, so instead of letting your thoughts and emotions to come out, you suppress all thoughts and emotions and only try to have "good" emotions and thoughts. In this process, you have to deal with so many difficulties and you gain experience as to how to control your thoughts and emotions, if you are strong enough. This can be seen as spiritual to those who follow that path. And these are the experiences which Bon speaks of. When I first became a Raju follower, I used to read and hear of getting within, after a while, I was so involved with controlling my thoughts and emotions, I was constantly, by the second, by the thought watched and tried to control my thoughts and emotions. Before I knew it, I was only aware of my thoughts and emotions, I had gone within. But suppressing all thoughts and emotions is not true spirituality. It will just make all the suppressed thoughts stronger and they keep coming back. True spirituality is supposed to be constant, not fighting all thoughts. So, Bon is living within himself fighting emotions and thoughts and he feels good for overcoming some - although they come back later - and he feels bad for losing. For him this is a reality and a spiritual path of "cleansing". All else is non reality, the outside world is non-reality as they have been told by Raju. So, movies that show Raju cheat are not important, what is important is that they are fanatically trying to fight their thoughts and emotions and that is important and that is reality. It is hard for me to explain it to you. Unless you have lived this kind of life, you wouldn't understand. I tried my best to explain it to all and show where Bon is coming from. I welcome all those who have lived this kind of life and understand, to respond.
(( .... I have based my views only on my own experience and study, not on guesses, stories, movies, or hearsay.))
Can you please share some of these experiences with us. Ever since the first time I talked to you, you keep telling me and everyone else that your faith comes from inner experiences and that nothing else matters. Please share some of your experiences with us so that perhaps some of us will be able to benefit from them. If your experiences are strong enough to keep you a devotee after semi-accepting that Raju cheats on his miracles, then it must be strong enough to at least change someone else's mind. If you can save one person's life by taking them to Raju, then your life has been worthwhile, so please share your experiences with us.
((That means for him it was a cult, but it is my direct experience that there is nothing "real" about Said's claims, nothing cultlike in Sai's organization-even though there may certainly be cult-followers like Said around, as there are in any large spiritual organization.)) Why should people believe you that Raju's organization is not a cult? You haven't given them any proof. I have at least told them of my "opinion", or "imaginations" as you call them, namely three movies which they can watch. What have you given as proof that Raju is not a cult master? All you have said is my experiences are that he is God and you expect all to believe that first of all you are saying the truth and second of all your experiences are not a play of your imaginations. Give proof Bon and stop telling us we have opinions and imaginations until you yourself give some proof.
((However, one may of course deduce based on hearsay and appearances, instead of direct observation and experience. Frankly I think Said examples that rather clearly, and so hope you will use his example to avoid such calamity.))
Bon, I was a devotee of Raju for three years and I had seven interviews and many private ones both with my group and Raju, with me and Raju and also, once he called me in with another group of people for a private interview. I have had many direct observations and experience. More than you have. I just remembered something. Once even Raju kissed me on the cheek while he was hugging me, has he done that to you? Has he ever played with your dick? Has he ever hugged you? He hugged me at least 5 times. As you see, I have had experiences and I found out that under the cake, there was a large pile of shit in the bucket, which examplifies what people will find in Raju. And you are right, I hope that people will take my example to avoid such calamity, I really hope so. 20
((Do you think Swami is only what Said, or I, (or Lane, or you) think him to be? ))
Your opinion above is nothing but twisted thinking based on faith. As an ex-Raju devotee I know what you are thinking. It is the belief of Raju followers that Raju is beyond all people's comprehension and so Bon says "Do you think _____ is only what Said, or I, (or Lane, or you) think him to be?" It is their belief that no one can understand Raju's reality since a finite mind cannot understand the infinite. They also believe that Raju and his actions are a mystery to all as is written in a book by Hislop, a devotee of Raju. So, if Raju's personality and his actions are a mystery, why should we go and see him since you, who have been with Raju for twenty or more years believe that he is a mystery? 20 Here I am going to explain to all as to why Raju followers find him a mystery. For example, Raju tells a devotee something. The devotee starts thinking why did Raju tell me this? Could it be that he loves me? Could it be that he saw something in me and he wants to change it? Could it be that he saw something in my future which is threatening to my life? As a devotee of Raju I used to think this was and so did my Raju friends. We used to talk about this sometimes. So, with all these questions, Raju's intentions remain a mystery as he also stays a mystery. Also, this kind of thinking made me feel that Baba might be killing a bird with one stone. Could there be more than one answer to the above questions? If so, then Raju is operating in many different levels as is also believed by Raju followers. So, as you see, this kind of faith is all based on their ignorace. If Bon disagrees, let him give at least two instances of his experiences which proved to him that Raju operates on different levels.
))Students who persevere do find that one way Swami teaches is to bring doubts *forward*, INTO EXPERIENCE, so they can be examined. Bringing doubts to light is part of his job as a TEACHER, as even Jed and Said example, albeit grudgingly. Why Jed and Said chose to not examine their doubts so much as to instead apparently deduce instead Sai was at fault, is what Lane's page serves to focus on, if one wishes. Of course David's page also offers the chance to mindlessly gloat over gossip, if one wishes that. ))
You are suggesting that after seeing three movies that expose Raju's "miracles" as frauds, and after being molested by him, I should have fought all doubts and held on to faith? Isn't that what the followers of the raping guru did? So, since they fought their doubts and found the "truth" about why their guru raped those women - they came to believe that the guru who had no sexual desires or feelings, was out to release the sexual energy of those women who were suppressing them; this way they could concentrate on their spiritual exercises - then are you suggesting that they are more spiritual people now? Also, are you suggesting that the guru is always pure and we have to se all shit and overcome doubts? As you see your reasoning works as I have said. It goes as "Raju is God, then he is pure and couldn't have lied about his powers, couldn't have molested those kids. His intentions are always pure. So, these doubts are unfounded and should be destroyed and replaced by faith." BY KILLING DOUBT, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO MAKE Raju A GOD OR PURE.
((No one charged them any fees or dues, and no one made them go into interview, or stay, or leave-- yet they blame Sai as if he somehow tricked them.))
We didn't go to India or interviews on our own accord, we were brain washed.
((They seem convinced a teacher can act only as they wish, poor fellows. No wonder then they are furious with Sai Baba, for he fits no mould whatsoever.))
If Raju doesn't fit the mould of a teacher, a pure person, or God, then most probably he is not a teacher, a pure person or God!20 Also, please read my account, explained above, of how Raju's devotees believe that Raju is a man of mystery and why they think that Raju does not fit anyone's understanding. It will give you a lot of insight in Bon's twisted thought patterns as expressed in his above statement. Thanks for your time. Please e-mail me with any info, questions or suggestions. Thank you.
E-mail The Neural Surfer directly at email@example.com
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