HOW I CAME TO FIND OUT
by Britt Marie Andén - former National President of the Sai Organization in Sweden
My own background: I am a Swedish woman born in 1946. I am a teacher in music, philosophy and meditation. I am also a mother of one daughter, born 1970, and two sons, born 1974 and 1982. They all have been in alternative schools. I have always been interested and engaged in philosophies and tools of alternative pedagogic. It is a deep rooted concern in me, as an adult, to offer the younger generation alternatives
I have also been a serious devoted seeker of the meaning with human life and how to develop and manifest spirituality in daily life.
In January 1987 I together with my old mother (at that time 72 years old) travelled, for the first time in our lives to India, and visited Sai Baba’s ashrams in Whitefield and in Puttaparthi. It was a tremendous positive and miraculous experience for both of us. I bought and read lots of books about Sai Baba’s teaching and was completely positive. It was as a dream coming true to find a “Teacher of wisdom”, besides being an inspiring teacher of love to anyone from any culture or religion. He also in his teaching was giving the outmost attention to children, youth and schools in a way that was in harmony with my own inner.
In the ashram there was a drug-free environment attracting people, of matured age and of all professions, from the highest academically level to every kind of occupation in society, and from all different religions and cultures, from all different countries all over the world. There were schools and Universities recognised by the Indian government.
Back in Sweden in February 1987, after one-month stay in India I engaged myself in the Sai organisation and was introduced to the EHV- training-program to become an EHV teacher. The Scandinavian co-ordinator Thorbjörn Meyer (now the co-ordinator of the Northern Europe) was the initiator and as well the chairman of a training institute within the Sathya Sai organisation; European Sathya Sai Education (ESSE) institute (located in Copenhagen in Denmark). In the years to come I was in the ESSE institute trained as an EHV-teacher as well as a teacher-trainer.
In 1991 I was elected the national president/co-ordinator. I attended the same year an international conference in Prasanthi Nilayam for “office bearers” from overseas countries. I became familiar with the international leaders as well as co-ordinators of regions and countries worldwide. I learned to know many engaged “office bearers” from all over the world.
I became a popular lecturer about Sai Baba and his teachings and a meditation-supervisor, within the Sai organisation as well as being invited to other groups in society interested in Sai Baba. My whole engagement within the Sai organisation was of course because I honestly felt deeply inspired by Sai Baba and his teachings. The EHV-program was to me an ingenious way to a better school and a better society, everywhere.
The school-project: 1993 I had come to a point in my life where I felt I should initiate a public school in Sweden, where meditation and philosophy were part of the curriculum and where the human creative abilities were nurtured in every day schoolwork. There had come a new Swedish curriculum, and new laws about free-schools that made me see an opening to put all my experience into a Swedish public school- project that could serve as one alternative model. Gimle Trust became established and the school-project just step by step progressed. To all involved I introduced the ides of implementing/integrating the EHV-program into the Swedish curriculum in this free-school project. I was very open about that Sai Baba was the founder of the EHV-program, to all instances, in all written information as well as verbally at introduction meetings. Not at all as a missionary of Sai Baba as the school as such had not the focus on Sai Baba. The focus was on universal Human Values and the EHV program that gave tools to implement them into daily life, within our own culture as well as being inspired from human values from other cultures.
. It was a precondition from the Sathya Sai organisation, and also Sai Baba himself said so in a lecture I heard, to always use the name of Sai Baba, or Sathya Sai, in dealing with the EHV-program. To me this was as natural as to use the names Maria Montessori and Rudolf Steiner in using their pedagogic programs. I also wanted to be sure that no one later should say that we had been hiding the source of the EHV program in a purpose of “secretly draw people to Sai Baba”, or that we were a secret sect etc.
In "adopted" (by the Sai organisation) public schools, integrating the EHV-program, there was no special focus at Sai Baba as a person more than that he was the founder and a good example in living human values, as Jesus and as Mother Theresa and as Martin Luther King etc. But in schools within the legal body of the Sai organisation (as in India) there was a focus on Sai Baba as God incarnated. But Gimle Trust was its own legal body.
I was fully convinced that the EHV program and thus also Sai Baba would be more and more recognised all over the world in the years to come. This I also told to some local politicians and assured them that they would one day be vary proud of having in their community the first school in Sweden and one of the first in the western countries integrating the EHV program.
Gimle School did start in August 1995.During the years of preparation, establishment and development of this school (1994-99) I visited Sai Baba many times. My family-members also did, and so did many others who were “devoted” to Sai Baba and who supported the school-project. Even some parents and their children did. Most of the children and their families in the Gimle School had no relation to or special interest in Sai Baba, but there were those that came to the school just because they were “devotees” to or interested, and some became interested in Sai Baba.
There came visitors to Gimle School from all Sweden and from countries around the world. We became one model of a school that integrated, so deep wanted and so much needed, Human Values by the means of an international program. There were other schools and classes in other countries in other cultures working with the same EHV-program, but each school was it’s own unique model, due to the local culture and teacher’s capacity etc.
Sai Baba molesting boys and young men
There was one situation regarding Sai Baba that was not easy to deal with. A young man whom I knew in a private interview with Sai Baba had experienced something that he after a long time told. Sai Baba had “kissed him on his mouth”, and asked him to take his pants off and “oiled him with some oil close to or on his genitals”. A thought of “ugly old man” (there is a special wording in Swedish “ful gubbe” that translated can be described so) came to the young man’s mind, but as it “couldn't possibly be so” he surrendered as he already had accepted Sai Baba as a “Divine incarnation” and his Master and spiritual teacher (guru). Sai Baba told him not to tell to anyone what happened. (After a year or so he did anyway).
In July 1999 a Swedish young man in a state of shock and despair confided to me very detailed about how Sai Baba had sexually molested him. When investigating this situation further I found out that not only young men but also boys, from India as well as other countries around the world, were victims of a shocking sexual molesting scenario of Sai Baba. Also that this has regularly, and for most followers secretly, been going on for 30 years or more. Even more shocking was the discovery that many officers within the Sai organisation as well as elderly devotees, who had and have close association with Sai Baba, knew about this scenario. They kept the secret and proclaim it to be an act of blessing to the “victims”, because considering that Sai Baba is the pure Divine Incarnation who cannot do anything wrong and thus is doing well whatever he is doing. In this case obviously even what for ordinary men illegal.
The Young man had prior to this incident prayed for help to control his passionate sexuality, which he felt, trapped him in an impossible relationship. He felt that he got that help out of this “ceremony” from Sai Baba. But he expressed, when he told the story, confusion about that Sai Baba had kissed him on his mouth. None of us who later listened to his story, could out from our experiences with Sai Baba, even get an idea that it was anything else but some healing or sexual or kundalini transformation behind this happening.
Our local priest from the Christian Protestant church, a very fundamentalistic priest attacked very heavily our school-project during the preparation period in 1994, because of Sai Baba and of being a potential dangerous Hindu sect. He showed me a document he had received from Germany, telling that Sai Baba was a homosexual and having sex with boys, which I saw as black mailing from the Christian Church. Sai Baba never talked about himself being either heterosexual or homosexual but as I had understood being in a state above any sexual desires.
I talked about this to the co-ordinator for the Northern Europe region within the Sai-organisation, an elderly German man (over 70) with the name Bernhard Gruber. He told me that he had heard about this with young men before and that some of the officers within the Sai-organisation had many years ago asked an American devotee (for all Sai Baba devotees very well known, but since some years not more in life), Dr. Hislop to ask Sai Baba about this activity. So he did and Sai Baba had answered “it is only for healing”.
When I heard this I found it very difficult that “healing” in such a way needed to happen. And I understood it as even Mr Gruber felt so. I had no slightest doubts whatsoever that it was otherwise than that Sai Baba had a spiritual motive of healing/transformation. I was not even taking into consideration that Sai Baba could have anything but a healing motive. I would never in my life have been able to imagine that people like Berhard Gruber and also his wife would accept, ignore or justify such sexual abuse that is known to me today if they had known. I hope for their sake they did not know.
Another Swedish man around 50 years old, to me very trustworthy and very devoted to Sai Baba since about 20 years back, told me when I talked to him about this situation, that it happened to him when he was young (around 30) that Sai Baba oiled his genitals as well. The man told it to be some help for the Kundalini.
Next time I heard a similar story was later, in 1996 with my eldest son, at that time 22 (shortly explained in the beginning of this letter). He got a private interview with Sai Baba. He thought that he should now get the grace of really asking serious spiritual enlightening questions. But Sai Baba started to kiss him on his mouth. My son immediately reacted negatively and asked what he was doing. Sai Baba ended the interview very fast without any spiritual dialogue.
My son was very confused and shocked about this happening, but he had had so much of enlightened feelings and experiences since many years up to this moment, so he had no idea that Sai Baba did so out of any sexual desire. But he wanted to understand what had happened and why and therefore tried to talk about it to many elder experienced men in the ashram, but no one answered him. When back home a couple of months after the incident my son told about it. My son also had an instant feeling of “ugly old man”. And he felt an inner protest, and got the feeling of losing his divine inner contact at the moment Sai Baba approached him as described. We were all absolutely sure that Sai Baba meant something spiritually positive which we could not understand, as we all out from other experiences accepted him as a “divine incarnation and our pure guru”.
In the summer 1997 at the a youth-conference in Puttaparthi where some of the youth living in our Sai community attended, amongst them my son in law as well as my eldest son. My son told me afterwards that one young man, the son of a very devoted family (since 20 to 30 years I think) from the US, was lucky to get ten private interviews. My son mentioned that he noticed that this young man did not look happy when he came out from the interviews, and was wondering why. We never talked about this anymore besides that I heard him mention this at some other times when talking about Sai Baba and interviews.In the end of 1999 it was discovered that this young man had been seriously molested since he was 15 until now, 21, without his parents getting to know as Sai Baba threatened the boy not to tell. But suddenly it became too much and the young man told his parents and the shocking situation was exposed. The family of course immediately left their “guru” and their posts and engagements in the Sai organisation and the EHV program. I have had personal contact with this family, before as well as after this situation was unveiled.
A victim: Now to the story of the Swedish young man mentioned in the beginning of this letter, which became to be a crucial point in my own life and many other Swedish followers of Sai Baba. This story he himself, at that time 21, told me in July 99. (Let us call him X, as he wants to be anonymous):
X was in Sai Baba’s ashram in Puttaparthi during Christmas 98 and January 99. (I was myself present in the ashram in January where I for the first time met X). He had as I remember eight interviews, some before I arrived and some while I was present in the ashram. All the Swedish talked about “the golden boy” who had so many interviews. As I remember, four of his interviews were together with a Swedish group. As there were many Swedish people present, they were in two groups. (When I came with Conny Larsson and a group we became a third group). In the same group as X was also, at that time (and still I think), the national co-ordinator/Chairman of the Swedish Sathya Sai organisation (Jörgen Mölgaard), who is a middle-age medical doctor and researcher. He was in the ashram for some months at that time. Also there for a long stay was a former national Chairman (Ulf Sviberg), he too in the middle age. (I was myself the national Chairman for four years in between these two men).
X told me that in all the interviews in Dec.-Jan. X was called into the inner room with Sai Baba alone. EVERY time Sai Baba was doing something with X’s penis; touching, oiling, rubbing etc and telling X it was for his sexual transformation. Sai Baba told X not to tell anyone. Sai Baba also told him that no one in the group “out there” (in the other room) deserved an interview but got it only because of X, and at some interviews also X’s brother, who was in the ashram for a short time. Only X was alone with Sai Baba in the inner room though.
X felt very uncomfortable with the situation, but also filled up with all energy of getting so much attention and being chosen out of the many. He received a lot of materialised objects, watch, rings, nucleus, japamalas etc. He also was enriched by the atmosphere and the talks and jokes from Sai Baba in the outer interview room. X told me that when all the other Swedish people were telling him how lucky he was to get all these private interviews and obviously thought that X had private spiritual talks with Sai Baba, he couldn’t tell them that these private interviews were nothing to aim for, as it for him created only confusion about what it was for and when it should end. Every time X felt protests from within, and asked Sai Baba what this was for, but Sai Baba told him to surrender as it was for his sexual transformation and that X was very blessed, chosen out of so many who would want to be the ones. As X at that time could not in any way even think that Sai Baba had a personal interest in a sexual activity, even though X felt inside a protest, he did trust Sai Baba and just wanted to understand the situation.
Sai Baba invited X to come to Kodaikanal in summer for to stay in his private house and also told X to bring his mother. Sai Baba gave X money in rupees and dollars to the amount of about 10.000 Swedish crones (about 1000 Dollars) to finance the ticket to come back to India.
Even though Sai Baba told X not to tell anyone about what happened in the interviews, but as X felt more and more confused about what the “Avatar” was doing in privacy with him, he decided to go and talk to the two elder, since long time devoted and experienced Swedish men, the present national Chairman as well as the former. He felt the inner need to understand what was happening and why. The two Swedish men said they had never heard anything like this, but told the young X that he was very blessed and that it all was a tremendous grace. X told me he that he after this talk was crying.
All this happened in Dec.-Jan- 98,99. I never talked to X personally at that time, not until July 99.
My friend Conny Larsson though started to talk to X in January. Conny told me that Sai Baba did the same procedure to X as was done to himself many years ago, some kind of oiling of the genitals. This was the first time that Conny told me that this had happened to him. He had told me many years ago, when I first got to know him (1989 I think), that some “secret ceremony” had happened between him and Sai Baba many years ago, which Conny explained was some kind of very special initiation that somehow sealed Conny to Sai Baba and not to have a woman throughout his life. Conny never talked to me about this again until now in the ashram in January 1999.
In June 1999 X was back in the ashram in Puttaparthi. It was summer (in Sweden). Sai Baba had told X to come in summer to Kodaikanal, but Sai Baba was in Brindhavan, Whitefield, in June. X travelled this time with his elder brother, Conny and a group around them. X’s mother had been invited by X to come and had agreed to do so but a couple of weeks later, and for one week stay only. I myself came to the ashram some days after X and Conny and their group, to join some other close friends of mine who also were there, and we created a Swedish group all together. After just a couple of days we had an interview. Sai Baba talked very much, in front of the whole group, about that the mother of X and his brother should come, and that he, Sai Baba, should take very well care of her. X was called in alone to the inner room, so was also another young man, and so was I. X did not tell the group about what happened in this private interview.
I was away from the ashram for some days visiting a Swedish friend living further south in India. When back I heard that X and his brother had “been granted” another interview, without the group. (Their mother had not yet arrived but would come within some days). Conny told me that in this last interview of the two brothers, Sai Baba had forced himself sexually on X, so that X had had to stop him. Now Conny started to say that Sai Baba had own sexual interest and that he (Conny) himself had experienced this in the early 80th, therefore he knew that X told the truth, he said. I listened, but I could not believe him, as he had never before told this.
Another Swedish man around 50 (let us call him W), became involved in this communication with Conny. W did definitely not believe that it could be so. Conny told him to talk to X, even though X had told Conny in privacy only, as Sai Baba had told X not to tell anyone. So W did, and even if X was confused by Conny having spoken without first asking him, he told his story and W was shocked and in despair by what he got to hear. He shared his despair with me. He had been with Sai Baba for many many years.
The mother of X was about to come the same day as W was supposed to leave. That day X and his brother went to Bangalore to meet their mother and were not present at morning darshan. Conny had said to W that we could not expect any interview when X and his brother were not present, as Sai Baba was only interested in the “boys”. W was in deep despair, very unhappy and confused about what he had heard from Conny and X and wanted to talk to Sai Baba. He wanted an explanation.
Surprisingly Sai Baba called the group for interview this morning. We all sat waiting on the veranda of the mandir (the temple) as is normal when being called for an interview. When Sai Baba came to the veranda to take us into the interview-room, he asked Conny: “Where are the two boys”? (I saw and heard this as I was sitting on the veranda in the first row of the group of women opposite within just a few meters distance to Conny). “In Bangalore to pick up their mother”, Conny answered. Sai Baba looked very surprised and asked again and got the same answer. As I remember Sai Baba asked when they would come back and was told “tonight”. Sai Baba told all of us to go back from the veranda and said, “I will see you tomorrow”, which meant no interview now but the next day.
W went back to Sweden, very confused. The “boys”, X 21, and his some years elder brother, arrived in the evening with their mother. She told very kindly but very clearly to the whole group that she came because her son X so wanted and that she had no personal interest in Sai Baba.
Next day, two days after our “visit” at the veranda, we were again called for an interview. “The mother” was sitting next to me just in front of the feet of Sai Baba in the interview room. Sai Baba materialised her a necklace. She refused to take it. Sai Baba forced it into her hand. She tried to refuse to take it, but he managed to get it to stay in her hand. Sai Baba tried to talk her into an interest in him, but she was very clear about that she had no personal interest.
Sai Baba talked to the others in the group, and called also to separate interviews in the inner room. X and his mother were called alone. The mother had given back the necklace Sai Baba had forced into her hand. He not at all impressed her. She also said to me that she noticed that he likes young boys. He is clutching young boys on their bottoms, she said, and added that of course he likes her son X, as he was a very good looking and bright young man. “The mother“ stayed for a week. I never heard her talking about the genuineness or not of the by Sai Baba materialised objects (as was mentioned in an article in a Swedish magazine).
A talk amongst us who had been with Sai Baba since long though started. We found out that many of us had at some situations seen that he took things from the chair or had it in his hand before he “materialised” it. All of us had had the thought that he did so sometimes only to test our faith. We all started to confront that the materialisations were not always genuine. I never though doubted him to have the power of materialising, but I did not like him to not tell the truth, and did not know how to deal with these untruths in my own inner.
In darshan Sai Baba told X: “Mother doesn’t like, what can I do?” There were no more interviews. The mother went back home. Most of the members of our group, including Conny, also left the ashram after some days for going back home. I together with X was booked at the same flight home a week later. I noticed that X looked more and more “down” every day. Sai Baba gave almost no more attention to him, just some short remarks during darshans. I had still not talked to X about his interviews.
A female friend of mine that since long time lived in Puttaparthi, also noticed that X became more and more unhappy and we talked about it. She was an old friend of Conny and they also talked a lot about the situation before Conny left. From her I now got to know that she did know that Sai Baba had some sexual intimacy with school ”boys” and other young men. She got me to observe that some young man (or elder boy) almost every darshan was invited for an interview. Very often the same one many days in a row. She even told me that some young men or elder boys are with him during nights, sleeping in his bed. She also told that she once in an interview had looked in behind the curtain into the inner interview-room, when Sai Baba was alone with a young man, or student, and she saw them lying on the floor together. And she told me that she had heard that Sai Baba used to pay boys money for being sexually intimate with him. She had even herself talked to some young Indian boy who was a “lover” to Sai Baba.
I also got to hear in the ashram that David Bailey and his wife Faye, both whom I had met many times and talked to and knew their devotion and loyalty to Sai Baba, had left because they had got to know about these sexual activity of Sai Baba. I had earlier during this visit in the ashram heard that they had left Sai Baba, which I couldn’t understand, as I knew their many years of complete devotion and engagement in the ashram and about David as a music-teacher for Sai Baba’s students. I also got to hear that two French young men had been murdered on their way from Puttaparthi to Bangalore and that they had experienced or understood about this hidden sexual abuse and were on their way to report home in France.
Still I could not get into my understanding that Sai Baba had some own physical sexual uncontrolled inclination. So many times I had listened to him in interviews telling “Before marriage only friends, after marriage husband and wife”. So much he had talked about discipline of senses and actually inspired me and my whole family, and others. We all accepted Sai Baba as the outmost good example, absolutely free from any sense or body desires of the kind, a Divine Incarnation, as he told himself to be. Even though my own son after being kissed on his mouth by Sai Baba in a private interview, never had come to a peaceful understanding about this moment, and could not see or feel anything Divine in this confrontation with Sai Baba, I and even my son himself, had surrendered to that it must be of a Divine purpose that we could not yet understand.
The turning point: The 3rd of July, in the afternoon, X and I took a taxi from Puttaparthi to Bangalore to take our flight back home to Sweden. Already in the taxi X started to tell me.
X told that Sai Baba had lost himself in sexual feelings and with loud passionate breathings mumbling “I’m coming I’m coming. And when Sai Baba after having “ordered” X to do padanamaskar (a tradition of kissing the feet of the master), he took X’s head on his way to rise up from the feet, and pressed his head towards his own genitals holding up his robe (dress) and obviously wanted and tried to force X to take his own (Sai Baba’s) penis into his mouth. There in the very moment X woke up to the absolutely conviction that this was not for X but for Sai Baba himself. X refused completely. Sai Baba got angry and the interview ended.
Even though X was in a state of shock after this interview, he as I understood it somehow wanted an explanation from Sai Baba about what had happened. But there ended the “romance “between Sai Baba and X. After having listened to X for hours during our journey home to Sweden, I invited him to come and stay with me and my son and his family if he felt he needed. So he did for the first week back in Sweden and here follows what I got to hear more than what already is told above.
X had no at all attention from Sai Baba, when he was alone with him in the private interviews, other than towards his genitals. Sai Baba touched, looked, rubbed, oiled and “played”. He tried to stimulate X’s penis to erect, but it was not so easy as X felt no natural sexual stimulants or desire regarding Sai Baba who said it was for X’s sexual transformation and urged him to just let go resistance as he, Sai Baba, was God. Even though X felt a resistance all the time he thought he had to overcome it for the sexual transformation to happen. Sometimes X got the thought that Sai Baba looked like a mad person when he laughed when “playing” with X’s penis. But he suppressed such thoughts.
X told that in Dec.-Jan. when he had the many interviews he felt very “Divine empowered” by the first part of the interviews, in the outer room, where he also got a lot of attention. And even though he disliked the private part of the interviews he still felt empowered after the interviews to begin with. But he also got more and more confused about this sexual transformation part.
But the whole situation was so much more than just what actually happened in the outer. X told me during many hours again and again and deeper and deeper, his feelings. Not only the feelings he had in the interviews and in between, but also now when he understood that his feelings of resistance were right and not to overcome to get transformed. He felt he had the duty to inform about the true story to all he knew that were connected to Sai Baba and to the world. At the same time as he knew he should break the light and hope for so many people by telling his experiences. He felt it was a far too big responsibility for a young man seeking God and having trusted in the Divinity of Sai Baba.
What touched my heart most when listening was when I saw how X worked with his own inner to overcome his kind of “shame or embarrassment” towards himself of having been so deeply lurked and overpowered that it could happen even though he felt resistance from his own inner truth. I became more than ever aware of how dependent the young ones are on the elder ones. Now X also had found on the Internet similar stories as his own, and even worse. It became so obvious to X that his own inner rejections had been correct from the very beginning and that many young men before him had been victims and exposed their stories. It was obvious to me that it was very painful for X to find out of having been so ignorant about his own inner truth and so much in trust towards someone who was a profound betrayer of chastity.
How should a boy or a young man, or their parents, be able to imagine that Sai Baba, the recognised Founder of the, in schools and Universities, even outside India, so well established and by governments accepted, Education in Human Values program, even recognised by the President of India and UNESCO, a program that proclaims as the foremost duty of any teacher or adult is to be a good example to the young ones, that this founder would sexually molest young men and even boys as young as seven years old. In a lecture Sai Baba held many years ago regarding EHV and youth, which I found in a small booklet, he is quoting somebody’s statement saying that what is most difficult for the teenagers of today is to become good examples when they have none. To teach by being a good example to the young ones was the key-point in this speech, aimed at adults, especially parents and absolutely especially teachers.
Nor X, nor myself and many decent people around the world, could ever imagine that such a situation as now begun to expose it existed. And I am sure even X, could not a slightest fraction of a second at that time imagine that many many of the ones so called experienced “devotees” around Sai Baba, to whom X thought he had the responsibility to inform about what he had come to know, already knew, many since 20-30 years, that so happened to many young men and boys, but accepted it as divine grace!?!? And by that let it happen!?!?
I cannot see anyone that has more power than the United Nations and UNESCO to protect and re-establish the dignity of the boys and young men that are or ever were victims, and make sure that this never happens to anyone more, now when it, thanks to the young ones that dared to speak out has started to be spread all over the world.
UNESCO started by the “withdrawal-message”. But the activity of Sai Baba is still going on, supported by thousands of officials within the Sai organisation and other “devotees” by either not knowing or denying it as rumours or accepting it as blessing and grace, or just awaiting an acceptable explanation. Many young ones are surely suffering in their silence, not feeling or knowing that they can speak up and be trusted and supported by elders..
X had been very actively coming to the Sai organisation’s activities in Sweden and was supposed to become a youth co-ordinator for the west-coast area. Most of the members in Sweden knew him, especially as he was the one in Sweden that got most attention from Sai Baba and most private interviews since many many years. X felt now a duty to inform the co-ordinating committee and all members in Sweden about his situation. A meeting with the co-ordinating committee and members was arranged, by the national chairman, Jörgen Mölgaard. X was present and so were Conny Larsson and my son, telling their experiences.
After the meeting X and my son told me that the national chairman was smiling scornfully when they told their stories. They said that if only met with such an attitude when approaching an elder person about an experience as this, could bring a young man to suicide. Other members met them seriously and many left immediately the Sai organisation and their faith in and association with Sai Baba. Some had already, after being in contact with X and David Bailey officially cancelled their memberships.
Read also Shirley Pike's Letter to Britt Marie Andén of Sweden